Menstruation discussion for men

[ColonelHardstone]

I have never understood as to why there are a billion courses, gazillion articles and trillion apps to keep track of a Mas'ala which has affected mankind from day one. There is absolutely no way that Sahabiyyat kept track of calendars or took extensive notes and a large number of Muslim women cannot read or write.

I spoke to Mufti Asadullah Shehbaz (HA) at Jamiatur-Rasheed (Karachi) and before I share his answer, I would like to hear from a Sister as to why this issue is so complex that it needs tables and Apps to track?

 

[Bint e Aisha]

https://www.islamicteachings.org/forum/topic/23842-sisters-record-your-cycles/

 

[ColonelHardstone]

2 hours ago, Bint e Aisha said:

https://www.islamicteachings.org/forum/topic/23842-sisters-record-your-cycles/

 

You have responded with a how and not a why? And not the fact that all of this would not have been possible in the time of Sahaba (RA) and vast majority of Muslim women cannot and unable to do this.

[Bint e Aisha]

Yes there's no need to take a billion courses, read gazillion articles or install trillions of apps. A woman just needs to learn the basics of fiqh and record her dates.

[ColonelHardstone]

1 hour ago, Bint e Aisha said:

Yes there's no need to take a billion courses, read gazillion articles or install trillions of apps. A woman just needs to learn the basics of fiqh and record her dates.

How did they do that in the time of Sahabah (RA)? Do you have any evidence of women keeping dates? What about women who cannot read or write?

[Bint e Aisha]

33 minutes ago, ColonelHardstone said:

How did they do that in the time of Sahabah (RA)? Do you have any evidence of women keeping dates? What about women who cannot read or write?

Even the Qur'an and hadith were not compiled at that time. Even the fiqh was not evolved enough. And Rasulullah صلی الله عليه وسلم was there to give them rulings. 

35 minutes ago, ColonelHardstone said:

What about women who cannot read or write?

They should at least learn to write down dates or get any literate person to keep track of their cycles. And if they can't then they should at least try to remember their dates and habits. 

[ummtaalib]

Insha-allah will reply later.

[ColonelHardstone]

  

10 hours ago, Bint e Aisha said:

Even the Qur'an and hadith were not compiled at that time. Even the fiqh was not evolved enough. And Rasulullah صلی الله عليه وسلم was there to give them rulings. 

They should at least learn to write down dates or get any literate person to keep track of their cycles. And if they can't then they should at least try to remember their dates and habits. 

Wrong analogy, Qur'aan is memorized and read and Allah Ta'ala has made it so. Billions of women don't have their habit memorized and there is no evidence (in Islam) that requires it. 

There is also no evidence to suggest that women went around looking for a scribe to jot down their habits and there is no requirement in Shariah for that either.

I am not looking for conjecture.

Please delete this thread as it may cause confusion among Sisters. Nobody is actually grasping what I am asking and what I asked Mufti Saheb so please delete.

I got my answer from Mufti Saheb and he agrees with me so that's all I was interested in.

Appreciate it.

 

Jzk

[Bint e Aisha]

Ok it seems you don't realize how much problems it can cause for women if they don't record their dates but that's understandable. 

Thread will be deleted by the admin inshaAllah.

[ummtaalib]

Quote

 

Please delete this thread as it may cause confusion among Sisters. Nobody is actually grasping what I am asking and what I asked Mufti Saheb so please delete.

I got my answer from Mufti Saheb and he agrees with me so that's all I was interested in.

 

 

I am not going to delete the thread despite Brother CH's rather selfish comment.

I believe it can be insha-allah very beneficial for men and women to realise the importance of recording women's cycles. As Allaamah Shaami rahimahullah says, "Men are responsible for educating them in religion, the principles of faith (aqaaid) and the branches that they are in need of in all the states of life."

Insha-allah will post my answer later. Apologies for the delay but I've had a busy morning today and was not up to answering yesterday

 

 

[ColonelHardstone]

21 minutes ago, ummtaalib said:

 

I am not going to delete the thread despite Brother CH's rather selfish comment.

I believe it can be insha-allah very beneficial for men and women to realise the importance of recording women's cycles. As Allaamah Shaami rahimahullah says, "Men are responsible for educating them in religion, the principles of faith (aqaaid) and the branches that they are in need of in all the states of life."

Insha-allah will post my answer later. Apologies for the delay but I've had a busy morning today and was not up to answering yesterday

 

 

 

 

 

I wanted the thread closed so people don't get confused and their acts of worship don' get impacted. I consign your "comments about my selfish" to Allah Ta'ala for the day of judgement, Insha'Allah.

Since you have taken up the responsibility to answer, lets hope that that the forum has the decency to not ban me from my own thread and delete responses (if any).

[ummtaalib]

Assalaamu ‘alaykum warahmatullah

I will try to answer your question to the best of my ability according to what I have learnt in these “billion courses and gazillion articles”.

On a side note, these courses and articles are mostly very basic, outlining the maxims for awareness. The only in-depth courses in the UK that I know of were conducted by Ustadhah Hidaya Hartford and Mufti Abdul Rahman Mangera sahib. I know there is one in Pakistan which is in Urdu and which many UK sisters have joined. 

 

Regarding:

Quote

There is absolutely no way that Sahabiyyat kept track of calendars or took extensive notes

Absolutely agree with you. They probably did not even have calendars and definitely no apps and probably did not even need to record their cycles (due to the points I’ll mention below) so no dispute with you or the Mufti sahib you consulted.

 

In order to answer your question regarding, “why this issue is so complex that it needs tables and Apps to track” I will insha-allah first have to explain some important points which have bearing on the answer. I’ll try to be as brief as possible

 

1 Knowledge of Sahaabiyaat RA compared to women today:

The Sahaabiyaat RA lived with none other than the source of all knowledge (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam) whom they consulted through his Azwaaji Mutahharaat RA regarding these issues and would therefore be knowledgeable in this regard.

Generally, among women today, ignorance of fiqhi issues prevails to the extent that many women are not aware of the faraaidh of ghusl and wudhu – not saying all women are ignorant as Alhamdulillah Allah ta’ala has blessed women great uloom throughout the ages till today

2 Things which Impact menstrual cycles:

Allah ta’ala ordained for women to go through the menstrual cycles and post-natal bleeding from day one yes, however women through the ages lived in different environments which impacted their cycles differently.

Many things which affect women’s cycles today were unknown in the time of the Sahaabiyaat RA.

Various illnesses exist today which were unknown even a few generations ago let alone in the time of the Sahaabiyaat RA. The illnesses themselves or their treatments, medication, etc. affect women’s cycles.

Added to that, there are various forms of contraception Muslim women use in our age, almost all of which cause problems with women’s cycles.

The food and drink consumed today also affects women’s cycles

Stress, anxiety, depression, etc. was most probably unknown in their time and this also affects women’s cycles.

All this information can be verified online.

3 For non-Muslim women all of the above does not create any issue whereas the very core of the Deen is affected for Muslim women where their obligatory worship which requires the state of purity is affected (5 daily prayers, fasting of Ramadhaan, the main Tawaf of Hajj).

Therefore, Muslim women need to know the basic rules of when they are allowed to continue these obligations and when to refrain and that is why there are so many books, articles and courses.

4 Misconceptions

One of the greatest misconceptions that exists among many cultures is LEAVING OUT the obligatory acts of worship which require the state of purity once any type of bleeding begins. This is sinful as there are situations where a woman may be bleeding however it is termed “Istihadha” (Irregular bleeding, invalid bleeding) during which she must continue carrying out those acts of worship.

5 Few facts regarding women’s bleedings

Now towards why women need to keep a record of their cycles.

The Shari’ah has set out maxims regarding menstruation and post-natal bleeding. A woman’s blood can by one of three types – menstruation (haydh), post-natal (nifaas) or invalid Istihadaha).

These maxims help determine which type of bleeding a woman is experiencing and as mentioned before, this impacts her obligatory acts of worship.

Women develop “habits” in menstruation and purity and in the bleeding after childbirth. Please remember this point.

Everything is simple as long as women’s cycles remain within the limits set out by the Shari’ah. (Note that differences of opinion exist between the Madhaahib and even within the Hanafi Madhab as these are ijtihaadi Masaail)

Problems only arise when bleedings are abnormal/invalid. Many women do not experience many problems however problems do usually arise at the following stages of a woman’s life;

At adolescence – Girls s begin menstruating at a much younger age than before and some start off with no regular habits and actually experience continuous or intermittent bleeding or spotting without having a complete purity of 15+ days in between bleedings (which separates two bleedings).

This is generally a straight forward issue where they are “given” habits in both menstruation (10 days) and purity (20 days) which is used to determine when they can carry on their acts of obligatory worship and when they are required to refrain

After child-birth – many women continue bleeding after the maximum 40 days creating confusion regarding acts of worship

During menopause – most women experience a total change in their cycles from ages as early as 45 nowadays where bleeding occurs frequently without the required 15+ day purity occurring between bleedings.

Use of contraception – is the most common cause of irregular bleeding for women whatever their age

Keeping all the above in mind, now the answer to the question:

Quote

I would like to hear from a Sister as to why this issue is so complex that it needs tables and Apps to track? 

Answer:

Quote

 

Women are required to keep a record of their cycles ( through memorising, writing, calendars, apps, etc.) so that when they hit these “gharbar” situations (problems), their HABITS in both menstruation and purity can be USED TO DETERMINE THE STATE OF THEIR BLEEDINGS because it directly impacts the very core of their Deen, i.e. their obligatory acts of worship.

 

 

Any ‘Aalim/Mufti will tell you that previous habits are necessary when blood exceeds the maximum or when it is continuous – by continuous I mean there is no occurrence of a complete purity of 15+ days and this situation can last for months.

Experience shows that most women simply stop praying when they experience any type of bleeding or spotting no matter how long it carries on. They only consult Apas when they are made aware by someone with more knowledge. 

The Mudhillah is a woman who has forgotten her habits (not recorded them). For the Mudhillah the situation can get extremely serious when she suddenly experiences problematic cycles (Hardly any women remember their exact days of previous bleedings and purity as they generally fluctuate) because it is impossible to determine the bleedings without previous habits.

In some extreme cases, some women may have to perform ghusl (obligatory ritual bath for full body purification) BEFORE EVERY PRAYER and thereafter repeat it in the next prayer time. However, at these times (in some cases) they may be allowed to take dispensations from other Madahaahib which is an extreme mercy of our Most Gracious Lord!

And this is why there are these “billion courses and gazillion articles” so as to educate and empower women in their Deen.

And this is the reason why great Fuqahaa of the past have written hundreds of treaties on the subject and as ʿAllaamah Ibn ‘Aabideen Al-Shaami (Rahimahullah) says in ““Manhalil Waarideen min Bihaaril Faydh ‘alaa “Dhukrul Muta-aahileen fee Masaailil Haydh” (The kitab taught by Mufti Abdur Rahmaan Mangera sahib)

[the fuqaha have agreed on the mandatory nature of the obligation of knowing the necessary states of a person] This is to have knowledge of that ruling, which a person is in need of, at the time he is in need of it.

By learning these rules in these “billion courses and gazillion articles” and following them, women are in fact worshipping their Lord.

Isn’t our Deen the most beautiful?!

Apologies as I could not answer in just a few sentences and also for saying you were being “Rather selfish” but this is exactly how it appears from your own words however it my not be so.

 

 

[ummtaalib]

 

 

 

No one is banned from the forum without legitimate reason Brother CH however this topic will not be open for discussion with the approach of the final blessed days of Ramadhan. If need be, it will be opened after Ramadhaan for amicable discussions and questions for more clarity. I do not intend however to get into unnecessary discussions on matters beyond my knowledge  since I have tried to explain to the best of my ability with what I learnt from the best teachers on this subject and years of experience with women’s menstruation problems and consulting different Mufti sahibs in the UK.

If you have queries regrading why Ulama have made it a requirement for women to record cycles when the Sahaabiyaat RA did not do so then perhaps you can start a discussion with Mufti AR Mangera sahib or other respected Ulama. This is something I am not qualified to comment on.

Jazaakallaahu khayran for the topic as I feel it can become a means for both brothers to be aware of and teach their womenfolk and for sisters to record their cycles.

[ummtaalib]

Alhamdulillah Mufti Abdur Rahman Mangera sahib's new level 2 course on Mastering the Fiqh of Menstruation (Book of Haydh from Al-Fatawa al-Tatarkhaniyyah and al-Muhit al-Burhani) began today.

The first lesson included a discussion on why it is necessary to look at various Fatawa books on this subject and the many differences of opinion of earlier Scholars and perhaps at a later stage for Ulama from around the world to decide whether opinions from various Madahaahib can be taken in certain situations.

The reason he said was that in our age, instead of women having regular cycles, diets, preservatives, medications, contraception, etc. was causing huge problems.

I thought I would post this here as this is relevant to the discussion in this topic.

 

[ummtaalib]

Pandemic periods: why women's menstrual cycles have gone haywire

A majority of menstruating women have experienced changes to their cycle over the last year, surveys suggest. One of the main culprits? Persistent stress.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/25/pandemic-periods-why-womens-menstrual-cycles-have-gone-haywire

 

Persistent stress leaves us suspended in fight-or-flight mode. In threatening situations, a hormonal pathway in the body called the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, which links the brain with the adrenal glands, encourages the release of the stress hormone cortisol – preparing us to respond to the threat.

However, if the brain is telling the body it needs to “respond” all the time (to anxious thoughts, changing circumstances, the stress of home schooling, the impact of loneliness, illness or bereavement), unregulated cortisol can suppress the normal levels of reproductive hormones in the body. This can lead to abnormal ovulation, which will disrupt the cycle – or even pause it altogether.

 

Quote

George Pearce, 29, is a teacher in Southampton. She has had a 28-day cycle for many years and can “usually time my period to within one or two days”. Things have changed. “I will bleed for a few days, then it stops. Then it will start again, then I won’t bleed again for six weeks

For Muslim women whose cycles are affected by stress in this way, it can become serious simply because their manadatory acts of worship which require purity are affected. In this type iregular bleeding, previous habits are necessary to determine the stae of menstruation and purity